Talk:Rear-hinged flippers
Robots in this category arms I'm starting to dispute some of the robots in this category and others. Some robots I feel, like Mortis, Comengetorix, Hammerhead 2, Kater Killer, Wild Thing, Robo Doc and Vercingetorix should be classed as lifters, because they do not fit the definition that applies to everyone else in this category. Secondly, I'm starting to think that Dantomkia belongs here, because its weapon is no larger than Hydra's or some others in the category. This should make Gemini not the only robot to throw another robot OotA with such a weapon. Any thoughts? Toon Ganondorf (t ' 21:45, February 23, 2011 (UTC) I agree with moving all those you mentioned to "lifter" except Hammerhead. An "arm" refers to a system where a small prong or fork gets under the robot and an extender provides leverage. A "true flipper" is one where the entire moving portion gets under the the robot. On that criteria, I would classify Dantomkia as a true flipper. 'RA2; aka Resetti's Replicas. (My Talk) 05:51, February 24, 2011 (UTC) :I agree with your points. Would you give me a hand by tidying up the definitions and moving the appropriate robots? Also, if anyone can spot others that should swap, that'd also be great. Toon Ganondorf (t ' 06:07, February 24, 2011 (UTC) Dantomkia The main link in the opening blurb about Dantomkia links the weapon to this page. It is in the Flipping arms category but is not listed here, and is instead on the true flippers page, and given a picture. Is it an arm, or true flipper? The we can put it right. Jimlaad43(talk) 20:17, October 5, 2013 (UTC) Flipping Plates I'm not sure who added Dantomkia here but it's clearly an arm, not a true flipper. As for Bigger Beother, I feel like that that is also an arm. Perhaps swapping "true" flipper to "flipping plate" would make the distinction easier? True flipper is a phrase I made up so I'm happy to change. The plate v the arm is a much clearer distinction. 'Toon Ganondorf (t ' 05:12, December 31, 2016 (UTC) :I don't feel 'flipping plate' would be particularly accurate for robots like Wheely Big Cheese and M2, though. In all honesty, I don't know why there's a distinction in the first place. [[User:ToastUltimatum|'Toast]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|'Ultimatum']] 05:28, December 31, 2016 (UTC) ::There's slightly different benefits of having a flipper plate over an arm, but that discussion is seperate. Toon Ganondorf (t ' 05:42, December 31, 2016 (UTC) Permission to change the main picture? I was wondering if it would be okay if I changed the main picture at the top of the article to the following: I feel it's more fitting as the picture used was not as explosive of a flip, but more of a gentle lift. Eruption's flip, meanwhile, was explosive (no pun intended). CaliforniaKingsnake (talk) 19:18, January 18, 2017 (UTC) :Excellent choice. Realistically we have room for all three, but this deserves to go at the very top. [[User:ToastUltimatum|'Toast]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|'Ultimatum']] 19:26, January 18, 2017 (UTC) ::I'd like to challenge this. Eruption may be beloved, but as of right now, it is a robot that came fourth in head to head and does not deserve to be the primary picture for this page. Now that we have an infobox, I think there should be a main picture selected and it should be one of the most famous ones. The Wheely Big Cheese shot is one of the best images from the Fourth Wars, but Chaos 2's Oota on Tornado would also be a good candidate. Just not Eruption. We wouldn't put Suicidal Tendencies for the face of vertical crushers, nor would we put Trax as the face of front-hinged flippers. Toon Ganondorf (t ' 10:28, January 20, 2017 (UTC) :::Third. Not fourth. CrashBash (talk) 10:31, January 20, 2017 (UTC) ::::Oh that's much better. Third in a heat is still far inferior to more than twenty robots who are worthier brands for this page than Eruption. And to be honest, I don't even think the picture posted above is that high quality - it's HD but almost solid crimson. 'Toon Ganondorf (t ' 10:41, January 20, 2017 (UTC) :::::That's not the point I'm trying to make, TG, and you know full well it isn't. The point I'm trying to make is that you made a mistake. If someone ELSE pointed out the mistake, you'd quite happily accept it, wouldn't you? CrashBash (talk) 11:15, January 20, 2017 (UTC) :::::While I prefer the Eruption vs Sabretooth image because of how spectacular it looks and how it makes the page more contemporary, I understand your reasoning for not putting it in the infobox, Toon Ganondorf. Personally, I would choose the one of Chaos 2 flipping Tornado out of the arena in Series 4, for three key reasons: :::::1. It shows the most famous rear-hinged flipper doing what it did best. :::::2. It reflects on Chaos 2 being the most famous rear-hinged flipper in the show's history so far. :::::3. It is, in my honest opinion, a ''much more iconic and impactful image than the one of Wheely Big Cheese throwing Killertron over. The way in which Chaos 2 chucks Tornado towards the camera is more arresting to me than seeing Killertron chucked away from view. :::::Of course, I do not mind which one is eventually chosen, but for me, Chaos 2 should always have pride of place in the infobox in honour of its pedigree and fame. VulcansHowl (talk) 10:57, January 20, 2017 (UTC) I would be happy with any image, so long as it is of an iconic rear-hinged flipper robot, rather than Eruption. 'Toon Ganondorf (t ' 11:06, January 20, 2017 (UTC) :The reason why the Eruption picture was swapped over was because it better demonstrates what a flipper can do. With the Wheely Big Cheese picture, it doesn't really show an "explosive flip", more of a "gentle lift". More to the point, I don't see why the robot has to be "iconic". All it really has to show is the weapon in action to the best of its abilities (and, technically, Eruption is iconic) CrashBash (talk) 11:15, January 20, 2017 (UTC) ::The reason Eruption's picture was moved up was because California asked and no one objected. That doesn't mean we are all bound by it. It is also redundant because that was when we had several pictures serving that purpose. Now we have to pick one. ::As for "gentle lift", this claim is actually laughable - Wheely Big Cheese threw a 80kg weight clean over its head. For its time, that was a big deal, and is still nothing to snort at. A gentle lift is Panic Attack or King B Powerworks. But I'm not pushing for WBC at the exclusion of anything else, before you spend all your energy focusing on it. I'm happy for any famous robot. And no, Eruption is not iconic unless you live in the UK and attend live events. There are dozens of pictures that would better serve as the main image, whilst showcasing a more famous robot. Otherwise we should just pick our favourites. 'Toon Ganondorf (t ' 11:23, January 20, 2017 (UTC) :::I love how you insist my claim is laughable when you make claims that "Spirit of Knightmare is worse than Velocirippa/Hippobotamus". That is laughable because of how inaccurate it is. My point (or rather California's point) is actually quite valid. If you watch the fight again, you'll see the reason it was listed as "gentle lift" is simply that there's no explosive thrust to it. It looked impressive, sure, but it's not really the explosive thrust we should really be using to point out how good a flipper can be. I too am fine for any other picture, just to say, but I do think the picture for Eruption does work really well as a picture anyway, because it shows a very explosive flip. Also, Eruption is not iconic unless you live in the UK and attend live events? That's a pretty poor reason for insisting a robot isn't iconic and one I can't see you gaining much support on. That's what YouTube videos are for. CrashBash (talk) 11:30, January 20, 2017 (UTC) I don't see the fame of a robot being terribly necessary when choosing the main image. However, I think it should really be a good photo of a robot being thrown Out of the Arena. Flips out of the arena are usually spectacular, and they accurately demonstrate the power of the weapon, their killer move. It's also a trait that is (almost) unique to it. I'd suggest maybe these (some of which would need an HD screenie taken). Jimlaad43(talk) 11:31, January 20, 2017 (UTC) I want to show what modern flippers are capable of. An image of an OotA doesn't sit right with me, that's a separate article. If Eruption is unsatisfactory, this is my next choice. [[User:ToastUltimatum|'''Toast]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|'Ultimatum']] 11:32, January 20, 2017 (UTC) :I'll have to respectfully disagree with Jim and agree with Toast here. Whilst your statement is true, when we have a whole article dedicated to robots being flipped out of the arena, it feels....a whisker redundant. I personally would rather have a picture of a flipper showing its explosive power over a robot whilst keeping it in the arena. CrashBash (talk) 11:35, January 20, 2017 (UTC) ::Great. Let's use a picture of Apollo or TR2. I think people are too easily impressed if the Eruption picture is "modern capabilities of flipper". As far as I'm able to determine, Jim Vulcans and I are all content with Chaos 2 flipping out Tornado as a good choice. Given that its one of the few "official" robot wars images we have, that's as good a choice as any. Toon Ganondorf (t ' 11:43, January 20, 2017 (UTC) :::OK, seriously, this hatrid towards Eruption is getting very silly. I get you want an "iconic" robot or a robot that really "demonstrates" what a flipper can do, but all I'm seeing here is a lot of salt. And if you don't hate Eruption, then it's hard to tell. CrashBash (talk) 11:48, January 20, 2017 (UTC) ::::Eruption doesn't get a free pass just because you accuse me of hating it, Crash. Don't make up reasons. The image doesn't suit. 'Toon Ganondorf (t ''' 11:50, January 20, 2017 (UTC) :::::Terrible and hypocritical argument, you do that all the time. And it does suit. CrashBash (talk) 11:52, January 20, 2017 (UTC) :The image '''does suit the article, it very clearly shows a flipper throwing an opponent around. It's just a question of prominence at the moment. Behemoth being flipped by TR2 is a good image, but not as good as the Eruption one. If OotA's are out of the question, a very good Eruption throwing Sabretooth high is the perfect choice. So far, TG is about the only one with a major objection. We're trying to show how a flipper works, not a good robot with a flipper. Jimlaad43(talk) 11:56, January 20, 2017 (UTC) ::OK, we really, REALLY need to decide on something, this is getting ridiculous. CrashBash (talk) 11:56, January 20, 2017 (UTC) If I may weigh in? I'm with Toast here, the main image should be a modern flipper flinging a robot around the arena but not an OotA, that was an ability that rear-hinged flippers had but that's not the sole purpose of one. Having said that, seeing as there's exactly one picture of a robot going OotA on the page (Tsunami on Constrictor), could more be put on the page further down? If we want to show off what the weapon can do, I feel that's the best way to do so. Combatwombat555 (talk) 12:03, January 20, 2017 (UTC) Vote Eruption vs Sabretooth #Jimlaad43(talk) #I'm all for TR2 vs Behemoth as an alternative, though.CrashBash (talk) 12:01, January 20, 2017 (UTC) #Combatwombat555 (talk) #TR2 vs Behemoth is my solid back-up pick. Apollo vs Sweeney Todd was a reasonable suggestion, but if the level of red was a problem with Eruption, Apollo has it even worse. [[User:ToastUltimatum|'Toast']][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|'Ultimatum']] 12:17, January 20, 2017 (UTC) #CaliforniaKingsnake (talk) 12:40, January 20, 2017 (UTC) #I admit Eruption is indeed overrated but that's an impressive flip and a good image to represent the power of a flip...even if I'm not keen on flipperbots. TR2 + Behemoth is a good alternative though. Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 14:34, January 20, 2017 (UTC) Behemoth vs TR2 Chaos 2 vs Tornado #This is the nominated choice, but I could pick any six or seven alternatives also. Toon Ganondorf (t ' 12:04, January 20, 2017 (UTC) #I don't mind which one is selected out of these, but my reasoning for choosing Chaos 2 vs Tornado has already been made clear. VulcansHowl (talk) 12:45, January 20, 2017 (UTC) Other (please state) #Personally, I'm split. I'd edge towards wanting a classic Chaos 2 picture but not of an OotA - and I completely understand wanting a modern picture as well. If I go for any other the three, I'd probably go with Behemoth vs TR2 as it strikes a good balance. Anyway, I'll suggest something like this for now as well, where it's a classic, explosive flip without being an OotA. Nweston8 (talk) 15:50, January 20, 2017 (UTC) #I would prefer a 2016 image, as it shows this type of weapon in modern robot combat. However, in terms of casual viewers, would they really know Eruption as the most notable robot with that flip? In my opinion, this image of Apollo flipping Sweeney Todd is better for various reasons. Firstly, the image shows the weapon in action and what it would do to an opponent (and how high it would fly). Second of all, it is a 2016 image, therefore making it modern. And last of all, Apollo is the champion at the moment, so casual readers would likely understand the weapon better, and apply it to Apollo since they have seen that robot more so than Eruption. Therefore, in terms of notability, whether it is timely and if it is fit-for-purpose, this image is the best in my opinion when detailing the main image for this type of weapon. SpaceManiac888 (Talk) 16:42, January 20, 2017 (UTC) Well, looks like Eruption flipping Sabretooth stays, for now at least. Meanwhile, there's something else about the weapons pages in general that's kind of bugging me.... CrashBash (talk) 23:18, January 22, 2017 (UTC) Any changes to Weapon type main images following Series 9? This is the only place I'll put this topic up despite there being other ones that could be done. Now that Series 9 is done are there any pictures you guys think need changing at the top? (examples could be for this section Apollo flipping Rusty, Eruption flipping Cherub or Ironside I like that pic as Ironside flew so high). Other ones that can be done are Drums and Vertical Flywheels. (though if you ask me I think it would be even better if we could do GIFs of each attack, showing even better how the weapon works). Let me know what you guys think. CaliforniaKingsnake (talk) 12:06, April 28, 2017 (UTC) :The goal is to get a reboot picture for every weapon. Between Concussion and Pulsar I'm sure we can get one for drums. I don't think there's an immediate need to update perfectly good photos with others where the only distinction is that one is from Series 9 and the other is one year older. 'Toon Ganondorf (t ' 11:25, April 29, 2017 (UTC) ::I think the one big change that was noted before with the Series 8 images, they're almost solid crimson. Now they're much clearer for people to see with less lens flares. It's not needed, but it is something to be considered. CaliforniaKingsnake (talk) 11:41, April 29, 2017 (UTC) :::By all means if you think a picture is better, propose it or just make the change. 'Toon Ganondorf (t ' 11:42, April 29, 2017 (UTC) : Hands down, this image from Eruption vs Big Nipper is the perfect candidate for the infobox. Clear, dramatic and once again shows Eruption at its best. What does everyone else think? [[User:VulcansHowl|'Vulcans]][[User talk:VulcansHowl|'Howl']] 08:11, October 30, 2017 (UTC) ::Apologies for the bump, but any other opinions before I make the swap? [[User:VulcansHowl|'Vulcans']][[User talk:VulcansHowl|'Howl']] 10:33, October 31, 2017 (UTC) :::Go ahead. Toon Ganondorf (t ' 10:34, October 31, 2017 (UTC) ::::I was going to say that the background is a bit fuzzy, as is the case with all Series 10 replays, but I guess I don't mind. [[User:ToastUltimatum|'TOAS]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|'T']] 10:47, October 31, 2017 (UTC) :::::I agree that the Series 10 replays so far have been exceptionally grainy, but at least this shot has neutral lighting, which should address some of the concerns held about the previous Sabretooth image. [[User:VulcansHowl|'Vulcans']][[User talk:VulcansHowl|'Howl']] 11:11, October 31, 2017 (UTC) :Here's another image, from the Classic Series', that would also look good as the main image here, and I think it shows of a flipper better. Jimlaad43(talk) 11:28, December 13, 2018 (UTC) ::I like that Gemini image although I'd say there could eb a better example. If I'm perfectly honest, does EVERY weapon image need to be a reboot image? I was looking at the Vertical crusher page the other day and thought "There's so much better" in comparison to the Androne 4000 image. I mean is it really a necessity? Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 11:32, December 13, 2018 (UTC) :::I like the consistency of the reboot main images, and see no real reason to change it. The Eruption flip is fine, and even if it wasn't, there are better classic series images than the Gemini flip. I can't even see Gemini with my screen at its current brightness settings. [[User:ToastUltimatum|'T'OAS]][[User talk:ToastUltimatum|'T']] 11:46, December 13, 2018 (UTC) ::::There's consistency and then there's better representation. I understand that point but if the reboot has awful or a lack of representation then I believe personally that the better representation is more better than something that's just been added because it's recent. I mean the reboot is finished, it Robot Wars comes back it'll all change anyway so I just don't feel it's necessary.Diotoir the son of nemesis (talk) 16:48, December 13, 2018 (UTC)